10 documented cases of AI coding agents autonomously destroying databases, wiping hard drives, and deleting years of data — then lying about it.

Dario Amodei thinks we are just a few years away from “a country of geniuses in a data center”. In this episode, we discuss what to make of the scaling hypothesis in the current RL regime, how AI will diffuse throughout the economy, whether Anthropic is underinvesting in compute given their timelines, how frontier labs will ever make money, whether regulation will destroy the boons of this technology, US-China competition, and much more.

“Everything that has been written about a potential War with Iran has been written incorrectly, and purposefully so,” he added. “I am the one that makes the decision, I would rather have a Deal than not but, if we don’t make a Deal, it will be a very bad day for that Country and, very sadly, its people, because they are great and wonderful, and something like this should never have happened to them.”

From rewriting Google’s search stack in the early 2000s to reviving sparse trillion-parameter models and co-designing TPUs with frontier ML research, Jeff Dean has quietly shaped nearly every layer of the modern AI stack. As Chief AI Scientist at Google and a driving force behind Gemini, Jeff has lived through multiple scaling revolutions from CPUs and sharded indices to multimodal models that reason across text, video, and code.

Jeff joins us to unpack what it really means to “own the Pareto frontier,” why distillation is the engine behind every Flash model breakthrough, how energy (in picojoules) not FLOPs is becoming the true bottleneck, what it was like leading the charge to unify all of Google’s AI teams, and why the next leap won’t come from bigger context windows alone, but from systems that give the illusion of attending to trillions of tokens.